Director Eoin McKenzie on masculinity, role models and The Show for Young Men

Could you please tell us about The Show for Young Men? What key ideas or moments ignited the concept?

It’s been a sort of ongoing inquiry about masculinity in my work. Making The Show for Young Men started when I became interested in this lack of male role models in the world. And also, sort of, what to me, felt like quite outdated or traditionalist ideas of masculinity that we see in mainstream media and popular culture, which I guess perpetuate ideas of traditional manhoods. So there was a desire to interrogate that, and to sort of challenge that in a way. Because it's a duet between a man and a boy, I was also kind of interested making it work where young audiences could also see themselves on stage.

Why the use of dance in the show over more spoken word?

The sort of phrase that comes to mind is this idea that talk is cheap. And so, having something that felt like it was about bodies, and about physicality, and about an intimacy between men, it felt like choreography or dance movement was a better language for that than a verbal language. And I suppose also in the when I was making the work, I was interested in what are the fundamental things that define masculinity, and a lot of it is around particular kinds of embodiment, or particular ways of being physically in the world. And so it felt like an interesting sort of proposition to interrogate that through movement, and through dance, and through the relationship between the performers.

What do you consider to be outdated traditions of manhood?

For me, a lot of these sorts of traditions of masculinity, especially in the background that I have, coming from Glasgow, which is a post-industrial kind of working-class city, masculinity has a lot to do with this idea of stoicism. So this idea of having a stiff upper lip, or of not talking about, maintaining some kind of distance emotionally from things. Physically as well, probably. And also these kind of undertones of a strength that is related to violence and a power that is related to the potential of violence. We see that tradition, that idea, in action films, in superhero films, in storybooks. We don't really see displays of men where they are vulnerable and compassionate and flawed and interesting all at the same time.

How do you get men to watch your show over listening to harmful masculine figures like Andrew Tate or Joe Rogan?

To keep it 100% with you, I'm really aware that theatre contemporary dance isn't, like, as easily accessible as a podcast or a YouTube video. I'm under no illusions about that.  In terms of, like, if it was to be about choosing to listen to the Joe Rogan podcast, I don't think there's anything that I can do. For me, it's just about making the work and presenting the work at places like Nottdance and hoping that people either directly engage with the work. And there's ripples that come from that for them, like what conversations might they have with friends or family, or the sort of social networks that they're in. We're so isolated and atomised and detached from each other now that there is something about the need to reconnect, which, coming back to live performance is why it's really useful, because you're literally sitting in a space with other people sharing experience together.

How did making The Show for Young Men change or reinforce your notions of masculinity?

The show kind of started with me going like, ‘okay, how do I make a show about this real relationship or emerging friendship between a man and a boy?’ And I kind of had all these fears that maybe it would be really awkward when we first started, and maybe Alfie and Robbie just wouldn't go on, or they wouldn't like each other. And, actually, what happened really quickly, almost instantly without much work is that this kind of friendship emerged that felt really caring, and gentle, and compassionate, and full of physical intimacy. It made clear that actually all of us have this innate, as humans, have an innate desire for connection and care.

What effect has the show had on Alfie, your young performer?

I’m careful not to talk too much for him, but the show has definitely given Alfie a network of adults who he feels connected to and cares about, and who also care for him. And I think that's just a really useful thing for a young man to have. It has given him a community of people where he has felt safe to reflect and interrogate and question his own masculinity, but also what it means to be a man in a way that is really healthy. It's been an informal arts education for him, in a way. When we first started working with Alfie, he hadn't ever been involved in performance before, now he’s done a sell-out fringe run and he's touring a show, and he's talking a lot about continuing as an artist.

Do you have any expansions to the show coming up?

We have been touring it a bit. We took it to the Edinburgh Children's Festival, International Children's Festival earlier this year. And then we'd also spent some time working with a venue over in Denmark earlier in the year, where we remade the show there with a different man and a different boy. We're doing that next year again in Kazakhstan, with a theatre over there, and then we're hoping to also do it in Mexico and Australia, as well as touring this version with Alfie and Robbie.

Is there anything else you want to say?

The show is directed by me, and sort of led by me, but it's really also about collaborating with Alfie and Robbie, both of them as artists, but also the show is about their authentic relationship and friendship, and so and I think that's really powerful. It's not them pretending to be friends, it is both of them being themselves and being friends, and then there is a choreographic and dramaturgical shape that exists.

The Show for Young Men is showing at Nottingham Contemporary on Saturday 1 November at 11.30am and 1.30pm, as part of nottdance.